Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

In a country with a national health system, why should you be able to internalize the benefit of smoking whilst externalizing the cost?


Then ban McDonalds. Ban cigarettes outright for all. Give federal funding to healthy alternatives. Raise tax on sugar 200%. Alcohol 500%. Use federal funds to make cities walkable. Give police the mandate to enforce more action on violent criminals. Fund unions. Fine employers where people work longer than 8 hours per day on average. Fine employers who do not grant mandatory 5 weeks vacation per year.

This is the world where the interests of the NHS is what counts for making the rules. Many countries implement at least some of these measures, to great success.


You could use this logic to ban unhealthy foods, or restrict people from eating too much.



Or to resist ever passing a national health system.


There is something insidious about the state forcing a citizen to pay for its services, only turn around and insist that the use of said services entitles the state to further control of the citizen.


Indeed yes. We have extremely large governmental departments regulating what can and can not be sold as food.


Not the quantity of food though. Deaths attributed to obesity are higher than those of smoking in recent years. Smoking rates are falling, but obesity continues to climb in the UK.


Trans fats are banned in restaurants in Canada.

Crazy food additives and preservatives are banned in Europe that are common in the US.

https://foodbabe.com/food-in-america-compared-to-the-u-k-why...


Considering the general state of the UK population, this may not be such a bad idea.


This is just whataboutism, but the UK also regulates sugar in fairly draconian ways too, for example.

There are good reasons to target smoking given how addictive and deadly it is. Nicotine is fairly unique in this regard.


It's reductio ad absurdum. Obesity is really bad for you and strains public health services. Should the government enforce a cap on caloric intake?


Unlike food, nicotine is not a necessity. Also calorie intake alone doesn't determine weight gain or loss. The problem of obesity is much more complex.

Governments try to address this problem through education and regulation of food. There are drugs available now to help control obesity and they're very popular, so people obviously want to avoid the condition.

I don't know why you think people should have a right to take highly addictive drugs that result in premature death. Contrary to smoker's claims, cigarettes are pure addiction and provide no benefits whatsoever to the smoker.


They already prevent advertising the sorts of foods that contribute to obesity to children, and encourage you to drink less sugary drinks by applying tax to them (though unfortunately manufacturers have responded to this by reducing choice and adding artificial sweeteners instead of selling something at a higher price that can be enjoyed once every few weeks.

I don't think any of this is unreasonable in a country that picks up the tab through both subsidised dental care and completely free-at-point-of-use healthcare.


Would a calorie cap be reasonable?


> Would a calorie cap be reasonable?

A legislation that isn't possible to enforce is not reasonable, no.

Banning cigarettes = easy to enforce.

Banning sugar in soft drinks = easy to enforce.

Limiting how many calories you can consume = how do you propose we do that? Do we even have the technology to track what someone eats? And do we carve out exceptions for athletes?

If there was a way to cap calories without surgically inserting trackers into everybody I'm sure you'd see a lot less opposition to your idea.


Whether something is possible to enforce seems like a sliding scale. We can totally imagine a world where a calorie cap is possible to enforce. In such a world, would it be reasonable?


Make a lolly bag $100 and not $1 and your problem is solved


a better solution is banning processed foods which fall below a threshold for calories/micronutrient content (and no artificial enrichment allowed)


No but you can make sure only healthy desserts are being sold. You can only stuff so much carrot cake.

Decent labelling could be a start. Even when shopping online there's basically next to 0 of actual data of what goes into product.

Forget trying to create a healthy shopping AI agent.


not could, should. i'm fully in favor of banning processed foods that fall below a threshold for calories/micronutrient ratio (and no artificial enrichment permitted)


pigouvian taxes are both a stronger disincentive and help cover externalized costs.

if this moves nicotine to the black market then the people/government will still pay the cost without receiving any taxes on it at all


> In a country with a national health system

I live in the USA where we are treated like crap by our system of government. I'd agree with you if we had national healthcare.


The sin taxes more than cover the healthcare costs of the associated sins. It's the untaxed sins, greed and sloth, that are fucking the NHS.


Smokers cost less in medical care because they die of heart attack and stroke before they get old enough for age-related care, along with smoking disqualifying people from many common procedures. Plus the sin taxes they pay already bring in more revenue than their entire lifetime medical costs.


OK, so if you smoke you don't get national / socialized health care but don't have to pay the taxes that fund it either. Deal. It's enough to convince me to take up smoking.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: