Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Tough economics questions: To what extent would these people still be willing to work for cheap if we let them immigrate and become legitimate Americans with a simple, easy process? Are they just willing to work for less in general, or is there a pattern of monopsonistic exploitation or other similar exploitation due to the legal process surrounding the H1-B process and how it is attached to an employer sponsor? If the latter, how can we procure evidence and measure the effect?


As a former H1-B (coming from France, and now living in Japan) who used to work in a Hedge Fund in NYC, I would say that there are three factors at play:

• an H1-B holder doesn't have much leverage for negotiation if she really wants to stay in the US, as resigning (or be let go) foolishly means going back home,

• US salaries in IT jobs are much much higher than salaries for equivalent positions in Europe, so even if you are making less than Americans you are usually happy,

• more personal and somewhat related to the first point: foreigners (at least the non native english speaker ones) tend to stick with other foreigners. Not by choice, it tends to happen very naturally from what I observed, and in my opinion has a lot to do with speaking abilities. If you don't know American workers, you don't know their salaries, so it's somewhat harder to know your actual market value. And by the time you expand your network to American people you are well under way to get your Green Card...


I think the freedom aspect is critical in any policy change. The 'freedom', or lack thereof, is tied to what the sponsoring employer controls - the green card process. I would propose something along the lines of:

1) If a person receives an H1-B he/she is free to work for anyone they want [Open Work Permit]. This kicks in immediately - no waiting period. On a job change the H1-B holder sends a job change notice to USCIS. This freedom applies for the duration of the H1-B which I think should be extended from 3 to 5 years.

  COMBINED WITH:
2) Some process to migrate smoothly from H1-B to green card. Perhaps you get a green card if you can show employment in your field ("Information Technology" for example, rather than something title specific like 'software developer') for a total of 4 years. No additional job related procedures required - just the usual security and medical clearances.

Will a company sponsor someone on H1-B if the risk of the candidate changing jobs is high? Would they be better off hiring and training local candidates?


1.) Your H-1B isn't tied to your employer except during the application/renewal process. The rest of the time you're free to move around. However, every prospective employer will want to know about your visa status, and that new employer will have to work on your H-1B renewal. You're at the same negotiating disadvantage, because you only really compete with other H-1B holders.

2.) There already exist smooth processes to move from an H-1B to a green card. Unfortunately, that's usually tied to your employer. Changing jobs may restart the clock on you.


Re point #1) this is definitely new. This was NOT the case during the first bubble in 2000/2001, when H1B holders were forbidden to solicit new employment. Slavery was alive and well then.

Also, contrary to popular belief, there is NO grace period after losing ones job. If you are on an H1B, you have to find another H1B job and file for a change or extension while 'IN STATUS', or at least have the new employer apply for a temporary I-129 work permit().

Note: Some say the explosion of outsourcing to India after the first bubble was actually a result of hordes of South Asians, familiar with the US business climate, who were fired and sent back to India, resulting in a humongous braindrain.

() http://www.murthy.com/2012/09/18/h1b-layoff-strategy-when-ch...


>... except during the application/renewal process.... new employer will have to work on your H-1B renewal.

>... Unfortunately, that's usually tied to your employer... restart the clock on you.

[I am picking some of the still occurring pain points in your statements]

It is for these reasons (and a few others) that I am advocating BOTH steps. I want to get control out of the employer and into the employees hand and also reduce the burden on the new employer.

1) Use an 'open work permit' - your permit is not tied to any employer. The permit has a date range (5 yr) during which it is valid for any employer without any additional burden on the new employer.

2) Remove the concept of a 're-startable clock' and multiple labor certs - those create burdens to job mobility. Lets whittle it down to experience gained while in H-1B status regardless of employer. Or some other metric that cannot be reset on employer change.

With apologies for repetition from my earlier post.


The pay difference between working locally in India and working remotely in India is apparently very attractive, so working locally in America would need to be very attractive as well (which doesn't help businesses).




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: