even Putin’s FSB with all its arbitrary arrests and torture in jail is very very far away from public lashing and hangings, from using actual children in real fighting (beyond kindergartens dressed as tanks which is disgusting but different than sending kids to demine fields or be used as human shields). The scale of torture and jailing is also different with Iran probably being closer to Stalin’s 1937.
Iranian proxies are responsible for well over 1,000 American deaths since 1979, and there were dozens of foiled plots on American soil and hundreds of individual militia attacks in Iraq and Syria, directed by Iran.
For reference, how many times has the US interfered with Iran's government and how many people in Iran has the US killed since 1979? That's the only way to get a fair view of this discussion. Just wondering if all this happened in a vacuum or, god forbid, Iran maybe has some reason to dislike the US.
When the comment is a response to another that justifies current attacks on Iran because Irani proxies killed US, it matters a big F'ing deal that those were in retaliation of the US historically scuttling Iranian parliamentary democracy and killing 50K Iranians by way of chemical munitions alone through its proxy.
Saying “what about the US attacking Iran?” does not change the above being false. In fact the US attacking Iran does not change the above false either.
Even if we accept both things as true:
1. Iran has historically attacked the US
2. The US has historically destabilized/attacked Iran
It doesn’t change the fact that “Iran does not use any of these (proxy groups) to attack America” is a false statement.
Skip me with your emotional arguments because I’ll just think you’re posturing and just trying to advance your agenda :-)
There is a difference between "attack" (that has a connotation of being unprovoked and in bad faith) and "retaliation" against acts of drawing first blood.
More so if those primary attacks had 50K killed by way of proxies (100K according to more realistic estimates).
Sometimes, what one dishes out, comes back. If it does, rest of the world thinks it is only fair. Yes Iran has been retaliating, very weakly, to counterbalance attacks on itself by the US and its proxies.
There is not much doubt on who acted in bad faith first.
The US hurting its toe by kicking a stone and then complaining that it is the stone that attacked is not a good argument.
It's like saying "A home owner shot armed burglar in self defense," then crying "self defense is whataboutism! That home owner needs to face mob justice!" Nah. Those tactics of yours simply do not work anymore. Everyone sees through it. Iran wouldn't be doing any of this if they weren't constantly being bombed and attacked and having their leaders assassinated. The strait was open 2 months ago and had no issues. Two countries decided to ruin that and they deserve to face the consequences.
this was a reply to people saying "Iran is not attacking the US". It is of course convenient to bend this discussion into a different direction, but this was a reply to blind propaganda that sees only one side as responsible for bad things.
[To the downvoter, downvoting is not going to change the historical facts]
It was the US that upended Iranian parliamentary democracy with a military coup, sponsored chemical weapons attacks on Irani population (through its proxy Iraq). This killed some 30k to 50k by way of chemical attacks alone. Credible sources estimate 100K killed by these chemical weapons attacks alone.
US shot down their passenger jet. US has imposed crippling sanctions that have decimated the economic well being of the country compared to what it could have been.
Iran Air Flight 655 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by two surface-to-air missiles fired by USS Vincennes, a United States Navy warship. The missiles hit the Iran Air aircraft, an Airbus A300, while it was flying its usual route over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, shortly after the flight departed its stopover location, Bandar Abbas International Airport. All 290 people on board were killed. No apologies yet.
Talking about Iranian proxies alone is one-sided if you don't consider what US-Israel proxies have been doing to them. US Israel have inflicted 10 to 100X more Irani deaths than what Iran has done in retaliation.
You are either ignorant or deliberately underplaying that. Most likely the latter.
Only westerners can be bad actors or at all in historic events racism of the charts? It takes two to tango and iran is dancing its heart out.. and could have had the most peacefull life, if its religion would not involve destroying all "unbelievers" in the middle east - first and foremost aimed at israel.
An illuminating documentary. Everyone should give it a watch to understand the Zionist belief system.
There is very little room to doubt who the bad actor is and was. No matter how many canards you can try and thrust, how many attempts you make to color this as a religious holy war.
That the Islamic revolution was and is against Jews is a lie. In any case the Islamic revolution happened because of excesses by the US sponsored Shah who was put in charge after the US dismantled Iran's parliamentary democracy.
Even today Tehran hosts Dr. Sapir Hospital and Charity Center, a Jewish charity hospital, the largest charity among the religious minorities in Iran. It is doing well, thank you.
Ayatollah Khomeini himself wrote a personal note thanking the hospital for its help after the revolution succeeded.
Synagogues in Tehran are doing very well in the Islamic regime, thank you. Except for one that US+Israel bombed recently in Tehran.
This is in contrast to Israeli false flags, such as the Lavon affair and Baghdad synagogue bombings by Israel to drive a rift between Jews and the country they were residing in. Israel has a long documented history of bombing synagogues in other countries in false flag operations.
In fact Irani Jews have often criticized Israel when Israel has acted against Palestinians. Chief Rabbi of Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehuda_Gerami has denounced Zionist and Israeli policies.
""" It comes as a surprise to many visitors to discover that Iran, a country so hostile to Israel and with a reputation for intolerance, is home to a small but vibrant Jewish community that is an officially recognized religious minority under Iran's 1979 Islamic Constitution.
"Khomeini didn't mix up our community with Israel and Zionism - he saw us as Iranians," says Haroun Yashyaei, a film producer and chairman of the Central Jewish Community in Iran. """
Could he say anything else or other?
He must sing the dhimi and hostage song for his life depends on it. I know what happens to the ghetto after the friday prayer. Pieces be upon the true believers..
"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you.
If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you"
Not to mention Israel's acts on Middle Eastern Jewish people
Interesting to see this chemical attack talking point suddenly in the last week. But yet posters here will claim the bad actors are pushing 'zionist' talking points and ignore when an obviously coordinated Iranian talking point is suddenly injected into every thread within a week.
30K to 50K Iranians killed by chemical weapons attacks by US proxy, Iraq. Credible sources estimate 100K killed and 30K-50K is a conservative lowball estimate.
This is an active unhealed wound in Iran. Families of the dead still grieve those killed in cemeteries and graves that are there in almost all their major cities.
Iran has every reason to not like the US which has been destabilising and killing and crippling them economically for several decades.
Iran Air Flight 655 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by two surface-to-air missiles fired by USS Vincennes, a United States Navy warship. The missiles hit the Iran Air aircraft, an Airbus A300, while it was flying its usual route over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, shortly after the flight departed its stopover location, Bandar Abbas International Airport. All 290 people on board were killed.
Hezbollah, Iran and extremely difficult economic situation in Lebanon, meaning there are no social lifts apart from taking Iran’s money and “being part of resistance” facing pretty certain death, plus nasty antisemitic culture and propaganda. These are the reasons Hezbollah attacked Israel and Israel issued evacuation instructions to the civilian population.
BTW the extremely difficult situation is also caused by Hezbollah, Iran and PLO before that.
A while back I read this book "The Secret Life of Trees: How They Live and Why They Matter" from Colin Tudge and I was blown away by the fact that Mangrove roots effectively breath with the rhythm of tide. As the water recedes, change in pressure and the air is drawn into the pores. As the water comes in, pressure pushes stale air out and seals the pores. Trees are beautiful.
Are they still counting now? Because they may be mistaking them for the victims of the US and Israel, which are killing civilians by the thousands too.
I think at this point it's entirely fair to hate the state of Israel and anyone who supports it existence. Not because of blood libels, but over a century of Zionist aggression.
There's no need for just about anyone to live in Israel, it's a choice. It's okay to hate people for the choices they make.
>A bigot is a person who is obstinately, unreasonably, or unfairly attached to their own beliefs, prejudices, or opinions, particularly regarding race, religion, or politics
It's not in any way unfair to despise people who still support Israel after nearly a century of crimes against humanity.
That'd be a fair criticism if I subscribed to some traditional antisemitic views, but I don't really have any inherent problem with the jewish people. I just want the destruction of the state of Israel and any who would support it, it's purely coincidental that this includes most jewish people.
do you hate Russians? do you hate Syrians/Alawites? Do you hate Turks and Iraqis for what they do to Kurds? Do you hate Japanese for what they did in WWII? Do you hate Americans for Vietnam / Afganistan / Iraq? Do you hate Chinese for Tibet, Xinjiang? Do you hate the British for Bengal Famine? France for Algeria? Pakistan for Bangladesh? Saudis for Yemen? Myanmar for Rohinja? Serbs for Kosovo?
No. You hate on Jews.
All of these conflicts have significantly more deaths than Arab/Israeli conflict. All of them are much more clear cut than Israel that defends itself since 1948 and Jews that defend themselves from hate crimes against civilians since 1920s.
“i just want the destruction of a 9 millon people country (btw including the 2 million arabs? what about druze, samaritans, circasians?)” hate consumes you, you totally are a bigot
Totally, it’s their home. Israeli Arabs also have way higher standard of life than all of other Arab countries – including LGBT rights, passport strength etc. etc.
Destruction of Israel is not about "legal structure", and btw we’ll prevail and people like you are the reason Israel needs to exist. We saw what happens when jews don’t have a national home.
Right, including all the women and the LGBT people. Penalties include severe punishments such as the death penalty, floggings, imprisonment, and fines.
And Israel keeps millions of Palestinians in large concentration camps.
It's hard to imagine what sort of sick mind would consider the Saudi treatment of minorities to be worse. It's abhorrent, but it doesn't come anywhere close to how Israel treats people.
Besides, the whole concept of "Israeli arabs" is a bit hilarious. How are those different from other Palestinian arabs? Is it just that Israeli state considers them more acceptable than other arabs based on some arbitrary standards not grounded on physical reality?
They are different from other palestinian arabs in that they hold israeli citizenship. Not sure how this can be hilarious.
Why don’t you say billions of palestinians in concentration camps? The type of concentration camps with hundred thousand euro luxury cars https://www.facebook.com/LUXURYAUTOMOBILECO/ and corrupt politicians living in mansions. You have no idea what you’re talking about, you never been to Palestine or Israel and you drown in your hateful lies
Something arbitrarily bestowed upon them by recent European invaders that secretly built nuclear weapons to secure their claim to stolen land.
>Why don’t you say billions of palestinians in concentration camps? The type of concentration camps with hundred thousand euro luxury cars https://www.facebook.com/LUXURYAUTOMOBILECO/ and corrupt politicians living in mansions. You have no idea what you’re talking about, you never been to Palestine or Israel and you drown in your hateful lies
I've visited my family in Israel on several occasions in the past. I don't do that anymore though.
Palestinians are prisoners, they have to ask Israel for permission to leave. They are kept in large camps, even if some drive Maybachs.
im sure you are lying and shame on you comparing people driving
maybachs to concentration camps in which millions of jews perished. people from west bank can travel via jordan no problem and so could gazans through egypt. lies and hate as in all the rest of the comments
Everyone should hate Israel. It's a terrorist state built on ethnic cleansing and genocide. It's executed so many crimes against humanity since its inception that it's impossible to track them all."The jews" aren't a nation, there's a nation that claims to represent all jews and it's up to the jews (and only the jews) to push back on that.
I will repeat this question - do you hate Russians? do you hate Syrians/Alawites? Do you hate Turks and Iraqis for what they do to Kurds? Do you hate Japanese for what they did in WWII? Do you hate Americans for Vietnam / Afganistan / Iraq? Do you hate Chinese for Tibet, Xinjiang? Do you hate the British for Bengal Famine? France for Algeria? Pakistan for Bangladesh? Saudis for Yemen? Myanmar for Rohinja? Serbs for Kosovo?
No. You hate on Jews.
All of these conflicts have significantly more deaths than Arab/Israeli conflict. All of them are much more clear cut than Israel that defends itself since 1948 and Jews that defend themselves from hate crimes against civilians since 1920s.
Israel is actively a bad actor, many of the ones you listed are not.
>All of them are much more clear cut than Israel that defends itself since 1948
It's dishonest to suggest that Israel was in any way defending itself in 1948, given that it's very creation was an act of aggression.
Despite a plenty of opportunities, Israel has never taken a step back to reset that. Because of that, Israel remains the aggressor.
Yitzhak Rabin perhaps tried and was rewarded with two bullets for his efforts. The Jewish supremacist who killed him is widely celebrated as a hero in Israel.
Oh, and when Rabin was killed it was the fourth assassination attempt by jewish supremacists that year. Now those same people run the country.
I disengage, no need to argue with psychopaths. I am sure you never held a gun or would shoot anyone, keyboard warrior.
If anyone reads his comments I strongly recommend verifying everything he says as it îs factually incorrect, but is based on russian style firehose of falsehood mixing in couple of sensible statements (like the fact that Rabin was killed by an extremist).
this just says that you believe the Iranian regime and don’t believe the western democracies, nothing else.
there are names of people killed, and videos of hangings, and videos of basij forces shooting at people on the streets, easy to find. there are videos of Iranians celebrating the bombing of regime symbols – saying all of its "atrocity propaganda" doesn’t make it not be true.
Google "human rights in Iran" if you think killing of protesters is a lie. Clearly you are here to spread agenda.
For any non-bigots that want to see truth, even if it doesn’t align with hating on Americans, Jews and the West. Iran based account exposing human rights abuses by the Islamic regime in Teheran https://www.instagram.com/hengaw_english/
Why would an organization allegedly dedicated to uncovering "human rights" abuses have an empty contact page? Where are people supposed to report? Oh right, because they get all their "reports" from the US/Israeli government.
Your blind trust of random blogs by anonymous organizations is part of the problem, not the solution.
respected people from german kurdish and iranian community share these reports, i do not trust random blogs. you can easily see yourself security forces shooting at protesters - it’s you who seems to be blind
anyone with a brain can google “hengaw credibility” and see what organizations rely on its reports. I will not give you, an iranian agent, any more attention
It is certain that armed gangs were activated and many people (up to a couple thousand) were killed in chaotic riots. There's video evidence of armed gangs in the streets.
The idea that tens of thousands of peaceful protestors were killed solely by the government, the same government that was decapitated just weeks later by a foreign war of aggression, and yet not a hint of mass uprising afterwards? Utterly preposterous, and I would be embarrassed to even entertain that narrative.
It's so obviously part of a cynical propaganda campaign to justify the actual unilateral mass murder of civilians by the Trump and Netanyahu regimes.
just that some interventions were attempting to liberate people from dictators using chemical weapons against its own citizens, and some were supporting these dictators.
The classic antisemitic tropes, you are disgusting.
> As of 2023, Qatar was the largest foreign donor to US universities, having donated between 2001 and 2021 US$4.7 billion in open donations.[10] Some of these schools are considered amongst the most prestigious in the US and include Ivy league universities.[11][12][13][14]
For comparison, AIPAC spent a bit over 100 million in 2024.
This is just Israel vs Qatar, obviously there are many more big players compared to whom Israeli influence is a tiny fraction.
The US literally just went to war on Israel's behalf with nothing but downside for American citizens. That's not an "antisemetic trope" (not that that means anything), it's just reality.
suggesting that US is under “control” of a small jewish state and is not acting out its own interest and motivations, is the typical “jews control the world” antisemitic trope. you saying it aint it is not an actual argument.
You saying that proven facts are "antisemitic" is not an actual argument. That card has been played out. Not only was it explicitly stated that we did this for Israel by both Trump and Rubio, Netenyahu has been pushing for this war for decades. Epstein, AIPAC and god knows what else aren't "antisemitic conspiracy theories", they're well documented terrorism and espionage directed from Israel toward the US.
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